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Author Topic: The end of the W900  (Read 5660 times)

coloradogreen

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 04:39:20 AM »
I'll stick with Suzie-Q, thanks...
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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2018, 04:39:20 AM »

charlie

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2018, 05:29:59 AM »
If the side shot view provided by Iowa80 had double round or square headlights, air cleaners & stacks I think it would be a good looking replacement for an iconic truck. :)  Might even want to see a flat top version. 8)

Wee Willy

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2018, 06:08:42 AM »
I don't mind the new look.
What do I care, they all look the same to me these days!
 ;D ;D ;D



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Iowa80

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2018, 12:49:05 PM »
If the side shot view provided by Iowa80 had double round or square headlights, air cleaners & stacks I think it would be a good looking replacement for an iconic truck. :)  Might even want to see a flat top version. 8)

I should add that this new truck, by itself, is not a bad looking truck.  My problem with it is that it's just an okay looking truck replacing what is one of the best looking trucks of all time IMO.  You're right that different headlights, air cleaners, and stacks would help a lot, although it doesn't seem like the first two will make it; the stacks can be seen in the official teaser image.  Otherwise, it seems like there will be some sort of chrome piece/vent in place of where the air cleaners would be.  Besides, the proportions really do make it look like a 9900 or Coronado, and to each their own, but I don't see that as a good thing, at least for PACCAR.  On the other hand, if the old W900 absolutely had to go for whatever reason, I suppose it's a good thing that at least PACCAR plans on keeping a square hood around into the next decade.  Still the sad end of a great era in American trucking, however.

Oso2

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2018, 07:54:04 AM »
On the other hand, if the old W900 absolutely had to go for whatever reason, I suppose it's a good thing that at least PACCAR plans on keeping a square hood around into the next decade.  Still the sad end of a great era in American trucking, however.

The writing was on the wall when the T600 came out in 1980-whatever. I'm surprised it took this long.

They might be nice to look at as an enthusiast, but I have always loathed the KW narrow cab. I find it ill-proportioned, with poor visibility, ergonomics and cab noise. I'll take a KW or Pete wide-cab any day (T880, 567, etc...) It was probably great back in the day, but technology has improved since then.
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coloradogreen

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2018, 08:22:01 AM »
On the other hand, if the old W900 absolutely had to go for whatever reason, I suppose it's a good thing that at least PACCAR plans on keeping a square hood around into the next decade.  Still the sad end of a great era in American trucking, however.

The writing was on the wall when the T600 came out in 1980-whatever. I'm surprised it took this long.

They might be nice to look at as an enthusiast, but I have always loathed the KW narrow cab. I find it ill-proportioned, with poor visibility, ergonomics and cab noise. I'll take a KW or Pete wide-cab any day (T880, 567, etc...) It was probably great back in the day, but technology has improved since then.
Words of a driver, not an owner. Everything in those wide cabs is glued or silicone'd in place. After a few years they rattle and squeak beyond belief. Things don't fit properly anymore. And those wide cabs aren't any cheaper to work on them a narrow cab where things are riveted, bolted, or screwed down in place.

Visibility is fine out of a narrow cab. I take my Kenworth into spots that guys in daycab Cascadias can't get into.

The cab on Suzie is nearly 30 years old. Does it have a couple of rattles? Yeah. But, I've driven equipment 20 years newer with more rattles and squeaks than Suzie has.

I'll take higher build quality and proper dash ergonomics any day over the wide cabs.

Troy.
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Paystar

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2018, 08:55:44 AM »
It's like I tried to explain to Oso before.....some owner/ops like me didn't care if we are losing profits. I'm a trucker because I used to love trucks. Therefore I buy what I want to be in all and look at. I don't care if it costs a bit more fuel. I do it because I enjoyed it and had pride in my equipment.

If I had to buy one of these new ugly aero cookie cutter trucks, then there is no point in me getting out of bed in the morning. Now it's not fun, it's just a job. May as well go be the Walmart greeter with Ontario's new minimum wage increase, and I can make the same money.

I certainly didn't get into trucking to be rich. I did it because I enjoyed it. Now it's getting to the point there will be nothing left to enjoy.
It's bad enough we have to deal with crap motors that try and put you bankrupt....at least let us have it in a truck that looks good.

But ultimately sales numbers tell the tale for the manufacturers, and unfortunately for us this new generation seems to want to drive cars and space ships.
The New Generation: 'You have what we call an irrational sense of entitlement. It won't kill you, but it will cause you to believe that you deserve top pay for doing nothing.'

Oso2

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2018, 06:45:36 PM »
Well it's nice to see that I haven't lost my touch. Yup, I can still disturb the manure with the best of them.

Troy, you may be wrong. While I can't speak about a kw as old as yours, I have driven a lot of 1990's - present day models (mostly t800's.) Compared to other trucks, the interiors are rattletraps that fall apart far sooner than newer models like a Volvo vn. The interior that I compare them most to is the FL Columbia - an interior with very poor construction.  I've driven old beat to hell Volvos that hung together better.

I don't say this because I have a hate-on for kw, but because my experience has taught me that they just aren't as well designed as other cabs - YMMV. Obviously I can't predict how a t980 will age.

Also, yes better visibility does help your business by reducing the chance that you'll hit something. Anything you can do to improve the odds of not getting into trouble is worth it.

P.S. YMMV and if you have a truck that you like, stick with it.

P.P.S. I've only driven a narrow-cab Pete once or twice, but I found the ergonomics and visibility to be better than a kw. I prefer more room though.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 07:12:11 PM by Oso2 »
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Oso2

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2018, 06:49:10 PM »
P.S. Now that I think of it, newer kw cabs have deeper dashes that push the driver further back, as well as head-liner shelves that restrict you're vision. So your old truck might have better ergonomics than a newer one.
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Oso2

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2018, 06:56:46 PM »
Paystar - I think you'll find that the new generation doesn't want to drive space ships - but they DO want a truck that won't injure them. All those old trucks were notorious for causing back problems and deafness.

Secondly - do you seriously believe that ANYONE listens to a drivers opinions? Man, you are an optimist.  ;D

Come to think of it, I seem to recall you preferring Internationals and Western Stars - all of which have bigger cabs than a kw; also your beloved Granites, Lonestars and Coronados also have big modern cabs.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 07:13:06 PM by Oso2 »
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Paystar

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2018, 09:31:36 PM »
Yep, love my Internationals because they were solid and super reliable and just kept going and going. And had Cat power.

If I had my way, I'd still be in my tiny cab R Model Mack. Loved that truck more than any.

Currently have a Western Star because of dealer and I like lots of gauges, but alas it's built like crap and that big cab is a greenhouse in the summer that is near impossible to keep cool with the AC on max and the fan on max.
Only thing it has that is better than a small cab is it is more comfortable to sleep in across the seats and my fridge in the middle because it is wide enough.

And I don't know about the newest KW's.....but I drove many 1980 to 2006's (C500, W900 and T800) and I have never had a cheap, rattling KW cab or interior.
And the ones I drove at Trans Provincial were heavy spec, worked hard, multiple drivers and they were all solid as a rock and you had to open the windows to close the doors because they were so air tight.

The New Generation: 'You have what we call an irrational sense of entitlement. It won't kill you, but it will cause you to believe that you deserve top pay for doing nothing.'

W. Lineman

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2018, 05:36:54 AM »
In the early '90's I moved a new W900L to a dealer about 30 miles away -- and the steering wheel was chattering left and right over bumps so much that I loosened my grip on the wheel. Opened the hood when I got there and surprised to see the steering gear mounted behind the front axle. Engineers say that mounting the steering gear behind the front axles causes 'bump steer', because the arc of the pitman steering arm follows a different path than the arc of the front axle.

I have a brochure on the 1929 Mack AC chain drive truck where they brag that the AC model had the steering gear mounted in front of the front axle so those arcs are the same to eliminate bump steer.

I know they have since moved the gear forward, but...


Wee Willy

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2018, 09:19:42 AM »
 Ive been staring at those photos and see the method to KW's madness.
 The new W9 in the pics is a lot smoother, aerodynamically speaking, and affords better visibility.
 Call it keeping up with the Jones's, or the Oso's.
(sometimes I just kill me)
;D ;D ;D ;D

 I'm digging the conversation, but as Troy has indicated, it's all about perspective and comprehension.
 Our good buddy, Oso, hasn't had the opportunity to drive an O/O spec truck for any length of time, if at all, and his beliefs are based on his experience driving fleet and lease trucks, and none of them for long periods of time.

 Since this is about the new W9, I have driven many W9's, old and new, from early 70's models to late 90's models.
 I'm bigger than Oso and admit that the A model was pretty tight for me and not so comfortable to drive, but I did anyway and loved it.
 The B models weren't much different, but with an integrated bunk, like on the Aero cabs, still a little tight, but I found myself a lot more cheerier at the end of the day than ever I did after driving brand new a Volvo 780.
 The Vole Vo made me feel like I was driving a tour bus or a motorhome, or steering a ship on the high seas, or driving a luxurious garden shed. 

 Had to roll down the window to hear the engine.
If I can't hear or feel the engine vibration I have to look at the tach, which means taking my eyes off the road, never a good thing.
Engines have their own musical pitch, tone and scale, just like a guitar.
 It's nice to know that your intonation is always perfect. 
 
 Technology may have improved, but that doesn't mean the trucks are better, just roomier and more ergonomically correct with more built in conveniences.
 As far as ride goes, they ride smooth, like driving a wet sponge or bowl of jello down the road, not a lot of engine or road feel.

 They're more like cars and spaceships than they are like trucks.
I guess that's what the kids want these days, only reason I can think of. ;)
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"If anything can happen, at any time, it will!"

coloradogreen

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 11:06:47 AM »
I'm not a big guy after losing weight.

5-8 and 142lbs. I need the space like I need a hole in my head. I'm a skinny kid and find a B model cab perfectly fine. A narrow Peterbilt cab starts to feel big to me. Wide cabs, Western Star cabs, etc all feel like driving a barn. FWIW, Western Star makes my sh*t list of worst designed cabs and dashes I've ever seen. The ignorant twit who put the ignition switch right in front of the shift tower should be embarrassed. The moment there's any play in the tower and you'll find yourself coming uncomfortably close to that ignition switch when shifting. Their rocker switches are cheap and fall apart quickly.

That being said, there is a generation difference between early and later 90s KW cabs. Early 90s were much more akin to the A model cabs, much more riveted and bolted construction, certain panels never changed.

I've driven a little over 50 different trucks in the last 8ish years, owner op specs, fleet specs, condos, flattops, daycabs, sit down, walk through and crawl through bunks. Aero and traditional and a myriad of engines, transmissions, rear gears, etc. I'm comfortable with my attitude about certain design aspects. Thankfully, as an owner operator it's my choice about what I run.
Your friendly neighborhood vegan heavy haul punk.


"Suzie-Q"

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Iowa80

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Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2018, 04:25:39 PM »
Kenworth just released an image of the interior of this new truck.  Pretty much what I expected; straight out of a T680, although the extra gauges are nice.


I would argue that the reason the W900 is being discontinued in favor of this isn't so much because it's what "kids these days" want, as much as it is PACCAR wanting to consolidate their lineup to having only one cab model, except for their garbage truck and medium duty cabover.  I'm sure medium duty conventional versions of this cab will be coming shortly as well.  Now, whether the new cab itself is the way it is because it's what the younger generation wants, is up for debate.  I honestly don't know exactly what the younger generation's tastes in trucks is.  If they were really that much about function and comfort and could care less about the cool factor, I don't know why they would bother with this new truck if they could have a T680 instead.  Either that or they're interested in the spaceships, like the Tesla truck.  Besides, I can think of a few younger members here that still have an appreciation for the old school look of trucks like the W900, myself included.

Again, I think this has everything to do with the cab.  Based on the type of buyer of the square hoods in 2018, I really don't think using the new cab is going to sell more of these than the W900s have been selling lately; if anything the lukewarm design will turn off some potential buyers.  Every single square hood truck model that's been around in the age of the aero truck has had an aerodynamic version of it.  It's just that early aero trucks like the FLD, T600 and Peterbilt 377/385, had a much boxier cab design.  Once the aero segment took off and their manufacturers realized the money to be made there, new cab designs with a focus on aerodynamics were introduced to stay competitive in the segment.  Aero trucks using the old cabs became a thing of the past, while the old cabs soldiered on as square hood models for quite some time.  Lately, I think we've come to the point where these old cabs have reached the end of their production lifespan and their manufacturers don't see it being practical to make them anymore.

Still, it's a shame that PACCAR's legendary square hoods are not long for this world now.  The replacement is obviously an aero truck at heart, and the hood, extra chrome, stacks, and nice interior are merely crumbs being thrown at the W900/389 crowd.  If I was to be in the market for a new Kenworth and money wasn't a factor, in 2018 there's no question I would go for a W900.  In 2022, I may as well get a decked out T680 instead of this joke.  Hopefully W900 buyers will see this truck for what it is, and it becomes such a flop that it doesn't stay on the market for more than a few years.

PACCAR should've done what International just did with their 9900.  The concept of the 9900 isn't completely dead - it may be under a new name, and I've never seen one on the road yet, and probably will never be marketed as an OTR truck.  But if you really want one, at least you still have this option.

Hank's Truck Forum

Re: The end of the W900
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2018, 04:25:39 PM »

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