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Author Topic: Dairy Permeate  (Read 2916 times)

coloradogreen

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Dairy Permeate
« on: May 26, 2013, 04:39:43 AM »
When I'm not towing a lowboy, flatbed, or similar trailer, I'll occasionally hook to various dairy loads. Mostly local work, shuttling trailers to dairy processors for delivery. But, recently, I did a longer run, up to central Iowa.

Dairy tankers don't have baffles, which means there is a lot of slosh to deal with. The load up to Iowa was sweet cream, a relatively heavy and thick load.

Which is good, a very controllable slosh. The route out took me up and over some little two-laners, rolling hills, and wide, sweeping turns.

Now, like most drivers, when out on the miles-and-miles stretches of straight road on the big highways, I kick the cruise control on and let the truck motor itself down the road. But, with the slosh, and lack of baffles, hills significantly slow down a milk tanker. A truck will power up a hill more effectively if it is carrying rather than dragging a load, meaning, if your weight is sitting on the drive axles, not the trailer axles.

Well, with no baffles, coming up an incline means all of your weight pushes to the back, and you're dragging. How to remedy this situation?

Kick the cruise control off. As a friend once said, "I don't care how good your cruise control is, it can't see a hill coming."

As you come down the back side of the last hill, you'd shut the jake off and let the truck start picking up a head of steam. With enough of a head of steam, by the time you needed to put your foot into it coming up the next hill all of your load had slid to the back and it didn't slosh as you put the throttle down (so long as you didn't just hammer it).

If it was a steep enough hill to drop a gear you had to remember to shift early. Say you hit the base of the hill at 1600rpm in overdrive after coasting. Now, when driving this truck, for fuel mileage, I will down-shift at about 1,300rpm to keep the engine under 1,500rpm on the next gear (13-speed, splitting the top-side of the transmission). When coming up a hill, however, I'd down-shift at 1,400rpm. Why? Again, because of slosh, by the time I had eased into the throttle without getting the sweet cream to kick, I'd be on the throttle at about 1,500rpm because of loss in road-speed. This kept me from either lugging the engine right in that 1,300-1,500rpm sweet-spot I was looking for.

Once I had unloaded the sweet cream I was headed to central Nebraska to pick up a load of dairy permeate. What is dairy permeate you ask?

It's 60% water and 40% solid dairy mix used in the cheese-making process.

And it has a harder kick and more slosh than about any dairy load you can hook to.

After getting loaded I pulled out and set the brakes to call in all the information on the load. And after rolling at about 1mph and then setting the brakes I got my first taste of the kick this load had. It felt like someone had run into me. And appropriately so, I just felt 47,000-lbs. run into the nose wall of the tanker. Boy was this going to be a fun load!

So, I get to rolling and grab my first gear and lightly, lightly put my foot on the throttle. Huh, this isn't going so bad... BANG.

There it is.

Once I got up to speed I could feel just how easily this load would move on you. The load pushed you, you didn't tow it. It could carry you up a short hill with virtually no loading out of the engine. It was an unusual experience to say the least.

As far as shifting goes, once you had to hit the high side of the transmission, it was relatively controllable. An exceedingly light foot would notice only a small slosh, enough to bog the motor for a moment and then pick back up. But anything more than that and you got a serious kick out of the load.

It was getting going with the load that tended to be the roughest. You simply had to keep a steady foot on the throttle, as the load would be sloshing, causing you to bog and speed up alternately. Even if you thought you had pressed the throttle smoothly and lightly, you'd still get a hard kick in the first few gears.

So, the idea was, once you were up to speed, to keep it there, keep shifts and stops, accelerations and decelerations to a minimum.

The dairy permeate also has significant side-to-side slosh, as well. The load didn't like turns. Not turning from one street to the other, but, the long, wide turns out on the open-highway. As you entered a turn you could feel it significantly trying to push the truck forward rather than turn. And then you'd get the truck in a turn and feel it push you through. By the time you hit the end of the turn and needed to straighten out the permeate wanted to continue the turn. You couldn't let the steering return itself to center. If you tried that you'd continue right on into the ditch.

Each time you stopped the truck you not only felt the slosh, but you could hear it. The truck would sit there for several minutes shaking until the load calmed down.

An interesting load to say the least.

But, the truck came home under it's own power without leaving the clutch somewhere on the road, and that's the plan.

Troy.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 06:54:51 PM by coloradogreen »
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Dairy Permeate
« on: May 26, 2013, 04:39:43 AM »

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Pascal Pion

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 03:57:23 PM »
Reading your report remind me of when my dad had a stint hauling liquid whey from Chateauguay NY to St Hyacinthe,at the local Saputo Cheese factory.Man it always was an interesting trip!!


Here in St Hyacinthe we do have an important chocolate factory and it's always interesting to follow a loaded tank truck coming out of the plant. You can follow the wave of the liquid chocolate,only by hearing the air suspension of the trailer and of the truck!!!
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Jimmy B

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 04:38:36 PM »
The company that taught me to drive back in 1970 was a small dairy co-op. The key to hauling milk in a tanker is "smooth." Everything one does needs to be done smoothly, shifting up as well as down, braking, steering, the whole thing. If one does that, no problems. And absolutely NO tailgating...

Heavy cream weighs about 8.3 lbs to the gallon, whole milk weighs in at about 8.6 lbs to the gallon as I remember. The more cream that is taken out of the milk, the heavier it gets.

Jimmy B
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 04:45:19 PM by Jimmy B »

NHRS

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 04:40:04 PM »
Did solution fertilizer & anhydrous ammonia over the years, & quickly learned the difference between boxing & karate applied to which style of driving you wanted to do on slosh-around weight. You soon get the timing of the trailer-space & the material, so you get the rythm of when to walk-in some power, & when to wait a mili-second for the extra help from your load.

Swinging meat is another load where you work with the load, instead of fighting it. I'd heard so many hero-stories for decades before I got forced into swinging, by a pal blowing up eastbound at Cedar City Utah. I was the 1st one already unloaded in LA & back in the yard.

The deal was, pick up his trailer loaded with a produce mixer for Sioux City, & then load swinging hogs (he had rails, my trailer didn't) at Sioux Center, back to Vernon. Was summer, so meat loads slim to come by. Couldn't let a pal down anyway, let alone NOT wait forever for a box load.

Pulled out that night at Sioux Center, expecting the worse, driving extra gingerly, & in the 1st little curve, I felt a very familiar G-pull I hadn't felt for decades. As a paperbody all thru junior-high & highschool, Thursday-evening papers had all the sale-bills added, making considerable weight & bulk in the handle-bar hanging paperboy bags for 64 customers. You rode the bike so the tires were ALWAYS on the ground, at the center-of-gravity of those heavy papers. The hanging hogs felt exactly the same.

I immediately knew exactly how fast I wanted to hit an upcoming curve, & it worked out great. Near the end of the trip, very late in the 2nd evening, very tired, I cleared the Arizona Port south of St George, looking forward to my run down the Virgin River Canyon. Night, no other traffic whatsoever, I could do my AJ Foyt thing & grease that canyon. Great way to get woke up for awhile, execept during the last part of straight road before the fun began, I'd forgotten this trip wasn't a box load on the floor.

Still had aobut 100 yards of straight, & didn't wanta make the truck try to do 2 different things at the same time, so decided to hit the brakes, bleed off what speed I could before the curve began, & try to live with what speed was left over.  As I eased some application air into the brakes, I felt the hogs swing ahead, & kept braking until the curve started, & then released.

The truck went thru the curve just as good as ever. I then realized those swinging hogs could only swing one direction at a time, & if I already had'm swung ahead, they couldn't go sideways & dump me. Tired & enjoying this new discovery, I then charged up to all the curves, worked enough air to feel the hogs swing ahead, & dive into the curve.

Told a pal (God rest his soul) about my discovery the next day in our yard & he answered, "Oh, yeah! You gotta 'set'm'!" And, he was extra good on swinging, too. he'd hauled so much he claimed he could tell the meat temperature by how his truck was riding. Warm is like a load of shock-absorbers, & getting colder gets stiffer, so the truck looses ride as the meat cools down.
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coloradogreen

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 09:59:05 PM »
Pascal-

I know what you're talking about, especially as you get going on an incline, roll into something like a parking lot where it is no longer completely level, basically anywhere where the load has a greater chance of shifting, you can constantly hear the air-suspension leveling under the load. Compared to most other loads (primarily I've hauled cream and raw organic milk) the dairy permeate has a very distinctive sound to its slosh. Truth be told, I can't really hear the cream or milk sloshing (you could feel it), but the permeate you could easily hear the surge.

Jimmy-

Smoothness is a big factor with these loads. As other's have noted, the unspoken benefit of surge is that you can make it work for you. On short, rolling hills, its a great load as it pushes the truck very effectively to gain speed for the up-coming hill (don't have to throttle as hard to take a run at an upcoming hill). That being said, as you noted, braking, turning, etc. needs to be planned for long before versus other rigs. You can stop emergency stop the truck if needed, but, it will be rough.

NHRS-

Never knew that about swinging beef. Most of the dairy loads I've hauled don't have a hard side-to-side slosh, again, the dairy permeate being the most significant that I've felt. Part of this, I think, can simply be heard through the suspension as you can hear the bags bleeding air leveling much more often than with other loads.

The permeate also has the roughest ride of any of the dairy loads. It truly doesn't take much to get it moving, a rough stretch of road, or a couple hills can get the load moving on you and for the next few miles there will be a distinctive "flex" to the load, similar to a heavily loaded lowboy as the beams flex up and down. The sweet cream rode fairly smoothly, very smoothly by comparison to the permeate.

The raw organic milk seems to be a comfortable fit in-between the cream and permeate.

Troy.
Your friendly neighborhood vegan heavy haul punk.


"Suzie-Q"

IMAGES COPYRIGHT TROY MILLER/ 10-4 MAGAZINE

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Jimmy B

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 11:48:05 PM »
You see, for every surge forward that helps, there is a surge backwards that takes almost all the gain from the forward surge. The only real help from surge is pissing off a weighmaster. Again, as a seasoned veteran of milk tankers the key to running any "shotgun" trailer is smoothness in all actions. Got to leave the "cowboy" attitude at home, or you'll have butter!<LOL>

Oh yes, much of this tanker trucking was done in the Feather River Canyon where a side to side slush from a partially loaded tank could send you off a 500 ft cliff. Again, smoothness counts...

Been there, done that and bought the tee shirt!

Jimmy B
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 12:03:09 AM by Jimmy B »

NHRS

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 05:54:56 AM »
Never ever felt an 'side slosh' with liquid fertilizer or anhydrous ammonia. Of course, I never went for high G-forces in curves or gunning away from stop signs in tight turns.

But I sure learned how to work with the fore & aft surge, & took full advantage of that timing by matching up. Do it right, & you'd make a 335 feel like a 425.

When chances are excellent for making the no-portable-scale-guys-around bet, one would eliminate any possibility of surge late at night, on short trips. Short hauls at night on anhydrous ammonia, after a full day of collecting recently-stamped weight tickets (we sat on scales while loading), meant literally cubing-out the trailer with a matching volume of cargo.

When the humidity was high, & the product was cooler than the dew-point, I had a fairly high-mounted 5th, wheel, which put a nose-high rake on the trailer. I'd pull out to the guard shack after loading, & the entire trailer would be dripping-wet, except for a little dry spot at the top over the nose.

After de-regulation, everybody & anybody could cut rates, & they did. On those short trips, 30 cent diesel fuel, the per mile revenue from just the overload part, paid more per mile than the anybodys & everybodys were getting for their entire load a few years later, while burning dollar fuel.

10-4 on the weighmasters. You learned real quick to slide in gently, because they'd wait until the truck settled down before they'd stamp their ticket. I'd make my spot on the scales, & then release the brakes to see how much I was moving back & forth. Coming in hot, & mashing the brakes took a lot more time before things settled down again. The hot-rod drivers had merely cost themselves more time than bad driving saved.
If you don't ask, they can't say no.

Mister TyZo

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 07:34:14 AM »
10-4 on the weighmasters. You learned real quick to slide in gently, because they'd wait until the truck settled down before they'd stamp their ticket. I'd make my spot on the scales, & then release the brakes to see how much I was moving back & forth. Coming in hot, & mashing the brakes took a lot more time before things settled down again. The hot-rod drivers had merely cost themselves more time than bad driving saved.

 ;) ;)  Speaking from the Passenger Seat on one of my many Trips to Alberta with a Backhaul out of Brooks,AB..10-4 learning real quick crossing over the Scales...One of my many queries in the beginning while watching them load the Hanging Beef, to wonder why they'd do a Sudden Take Off from the loading dock and then jam on the Brakes..Of course it was quit a process to watch the animal walk in on all Four's , listen to the Stockman whistle at the top of his lungs ..Hurd them up a ramp on one side of the wall and then threw the Doorway onto a metal ramp shaped like shut and down they went to a lad at the bottom with a chain to hook onto a leg..You'd think you were at an old style car wash...Having been told that Beef has to hang in the Freezer for 72 hours after the slaughter and I'm watching what was in the holding pen and told also that they can process up to 60 some head an hour..They answered my Question by asking me how long it takes to get back to Montreal ??  LOL
Be Safe / Be Careful  BTB

NHRS

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Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 08:31:38 AM »
10-4 on loads moving around. Most 'swinging meat', hanging from meat hooks on the rails (can't remember the specs, but trailers set up strictly for hogs had a different spacing that beef trailers), had half the carcus hanging out the trailer when loaded.

The loading guys in the white gowns would have the driver ease ahead & when the door-swing area had cleared the building, he'd punch the brakes. The hanging carcuses would swing ahead & the loaders would quickly shut the trailer doors before they swung back.

Back in the 50's, lots of states weighed busses, & most of them went over 18000 on the drive tires when loaded. Went on a 2-week church youth group tour when I was in highschool. & already loving big wheels & anything about them, quickly organized a panic-party to get off the back end over the drivers, crotch down & fill up the aisle at the front end. Exactly the same as we saw in "Das Boot" decades later when they needed more angle to dive fast.

Got caught in Missouri headed back home. Bt that time, we were driving the den-mother lady nuts with practical jokes, water guns, etc. Usually pulling down the ramp to the scales was plenty of time to shift weight, but that day nobody would pay attention & the panic-party down the aisle was too small. When our driver got called inside, we all gave up & returned to our seats.

Later, after he'd gone to get a money-order for Missouri, returned & we were allowed to leave, he told us our moving back while sitting on the scales had been noticed by the wieghmaster. He'd informed our driver to have his passengers stay in their seats.
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Hank's Truck Forum

Re: Dairy Permeate
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2013, 08:31:38 AM »

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