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Author Topic: 4X4 Transmissions  (Read 8658 times)

Rob Archer

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4X4 Transmissions
« on: November 03, 2003, 06:42:59 PM »
Alrighty then; since there is this wealth of technical information here let me ask about the 4X4 transmission. This was a two-sticker wasn't it? How did it work on a single axle tractor? Did one drive axle have two speeds ?
Something I've wondered about.

Hank's Truck Forum

4X4 Transmissions
« on: November 03, 2003, 06:42:59 PM »

mike b

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4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2003, 01:26:08 AM »
Hi rob

I have operated many pete 359s log trucks with 5 speed main and a 4 speed auxiliary transmissions.. Most were 2 sticks (two transmissions).. Although there was one truck I drove that had a air shift auxiliary transmission I think it was built by spicer.. So not all trucks with two transmissions have two sticks, the air shift auxiliary transmission has a knob on the main box shifter lever that had four positions to control the four gears via air presure..

 With a air shift auxiliary if you missed your gear it could be very hard to get it back in gear.. I always thought these were harder to operate than the two stick set up..

 I have never drove a truck with a 4x4 but I would think it would be like one of the set ups I described above.. I doubt a two speed axle has any thing to do with the operation of a 4x4.. I would think a 4x4 would most likely be a 4-speed main box and a 4-speed auxiliary transmission..

I am sure there is someone out there who could tell you more about the 4x4 set up..

________
mike b

doug mckenzie

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4 x 4 Transmissions.
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2003, 06:28:58 AM »
Rob;

The 4 x 4 transmisson was a 4-speed Main transmission with a 4-speed auxiliary, giving 16 speeds.
Originally it was available as two separate boxes, and then offered as a "Married Box" where the transmission case contained both the main and the auxiliary gearboxes. It was also available as the P-8516 Spicer air shift 16-speed - we had one of these at Laidlaw in the mid-70s in an LTS Ford behind the "de rigeur" 318 Detroit.

The idea was to "split" all 4 gears in the main with the 4 in the uaxiliary,
ie: going from 2nd in the main up through UNDER, LOW, DIRECT and OVER in the auxiliary.

Now, my own experience here is limited to Ross Mackie's '64 Canadian Kenworth COE which I had the opportunity to drive to several week-end truck shows some 10 or 11 years ago, but that transmission could easily be used as a 12-speed, not having to go through the transmission from 1st and UNDER, which you would think as 1 and 1.

As I understand it, and I'm open to correction here, the PROGRESSIVE version required you to begin in 1st in the MAIN and 1st in the AUXILIARY and then work your way up to 4th in the MAIN and 4th in the AUXILIARY.

With load and road conditions, you could skip gears at will.

The tractor did not need to be a tandem for this transmission - Ross' '64 was a single axle.

The biggest problem for any greenhorn, which is me, is making certain that the main never gets out of gear when shifting the auxiliary. I have no idea about the air shift version, but with the twin-stick, you shifted the main first to make sure it was always in gear before you shifted the auxiliary.

Experienced drivers could often use both hands to shift "compound" shifts by putting their left arm under and through the steering wheel and holding the steering wheel with their stomachs.

If you're into any kind of plastic modelling Rob, you might be interested to know that the AMT Diamond Reo kit - which you should find fairly easily in well supplied hobby stores - s equipped with a 1/25th scale air shift 4 x 4.
Right-wing Old School.

William McCullough

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4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2003, 01:04:44 PM »
In the early eighties I drove several tandem dumps and end dumps with two stick setups. One of the W900s had the 4x4. When fully loaded I would start in first and first, shift the aux.through all the gears then shift to second on the main with the aux. still in high, the rpms had to drop to about 1200 for the main to go into gear then up the rpms to about 1700 and bring the aux.back to second and repeat the whole process till both transmissions were in fourth. After the initial start first would not be used again on the aux. On the 5x4 fifth was overdrive, the final shift, you would not have to run through the aux. again once in fifth. For downshifting you downshift the auxillary through the gears then put the main in nuetral shift the auxillary back to high then put the main back into the lower gear( or at least that's what I remember) Also if I remember right you could shift the auxillary while going in reverse. Always used one hand never tried the two hand method. Some of the old Macks had the married transmission plus an auxillary for three sticks total, don't know how that one works.

krooser

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2006, 10:06:20 AM »
My first "real" driving job was with Ristow Trucking out of Wales, WI. I had only 1 1/2 days experience (another story for another day)...I answered an ad for 'Truck Driver Wanted...Must Have Own Tools".....

Like the old saying goes..."At 10 o'clock I couldn't spell truck driver and by 2 o'clock I are one"....Dick, the dispatcher asked me if I could drive a 4X4...I thought he meant a Jeep with four wheel drive. I jumped in that old '62 Freightliner, saw two sticks, and I thought one was the emergency brake! I didn't have a clue.

Al Kangas, the shop mechanic, took me for a "safety" ride....Despite many hills and turns along Wisconsin Hwy 83, I got the hang of it and by four o'clock that afternoon I was backed into a dock at the Schlitz Brewing Company in Milwaukee getting loaded...long time ago.

Rob Archer

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2006, 12:28:22 PM »
My first "real" driving job was with Ristow Trucking out of Wales, WI. I had only 1 1/2 days experience (another story for another day)...I answered an ad for 'Truck Driver Wanted...Must Have Own Tools".....

 and by four o'clock that afternoon I was backed into a dock at the Schlitz Brewing Company in Milwaukee getting loaded...long time ago.


Sheesh...first day on the job and you were into the Schlitz already ?
 :-P :-P :-P :-P :-D

CAN MAN

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2006, 12:36:31 PM »
Guess what happens with a INTERNATIONAL T/A dump truck with a gas engine and 4 X 4 trans when you put 22 yards of wet stone dust in the box , crest a hill in 1 & 1 push in the clutch and when it got rolling really good dump the clutch  :-o

Rob Archer

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2006, 01:35:11 PM »
Guess what happens with a INTERNATIONAL T/A dump truck with a gas engine and 4 X 4 trans when you put 22 yards of wet stone dust in the box , crest a hill in 1 & 1 push in the clutch and when it got rolling really good dump the clutch? :-o


I dunno; but it sounds like you had better be wearing your seat belt!

michael

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2006, 02:10:50 PM »
Guess what happens with a INTERNATIONAL T/A dump truck with a gas engine and 4 X 4 trans when you put 22 yards of wet stone dust in the box , crest a hill in 1 & 1 push in the clutch and when it got rolling really good dump the clutch? :-o

I'm guessing you needed a long block from the engine manufacturer as you probably threw a rod or two.? :-o :-o
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 02:23:56 PM by michael »

protrker

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2006, 09:56:39 PM »
The couple of 4x4's I've driven in the past, a mid 70's IH with a diesel and an early 80's GMC with a 427 gas, not sure which was which, but the stick closest to me was 1-4 with the outer in 1st, then outer in 2nd and the closest back to 3rd then 4th, shift outer to 3rd and closer to 3rd then 4th, outer to 4th then closer to 3rd then 4th.

Downshifting, shifted the outer stick down without touching the closer stick till outer was in 1st then closer 4-1. It was certainly easier to just do it rather than now explaining it. :-D

CAN MAN

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2006, 01:26:17 PM »
MICHAEL is correct , fairly LARGE $ repair bill , saw a young guy do this years ago after someone JOKENLY? 8-) told him thats how you take the GOVONOR out of the engine , actually blew a few sparkplugs out of the engine :-o

Truck had been a used AMBROS T/A dump , remember when they were a large road builder , lots of INTERNATIONALS.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2006, 01:28:58 PM by CAN MAN »

chris142

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2006, 08:36:37 PM »

Rob Archer

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2006, 10:24:29 AM »

Truck had been a used AMBROS T/A dump , remember when they were a large road builder , lots of INTERNATIONALS.

I remember watching all those orange International gas jobs go flying down Caledon hill on Highway 10 after leaving the Armbro gravel pit.

bkentr

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 08:50:44 PM »
Twin sticks, lots older than me,? but thats where I came in to trucking,

In 1970, a '68 Pete was still new , and this one had the 4x4, married, progressive.

Progressive ment the same spacing between gears in the brownie,
about 300 rpm's per shift.

The deep under brownie had a low, low in the 1'st position.

To run hard, and "keep up" with the other trucks, you learned to skip gears.

The shifts were? ?1st direct? to? 2ond direct,? then 2ond over, then
let the r's fall enough to pick up 3rd in the main, and direct in the brownie
a split second later. Used both hands. ? ?In a progressive setup? you could then
shift to 4th double under,

once in 4th , in the main, then the shifts were just 300 rpm apart in the brownie,
right on to your next stop light, what a rat race. Double bottom dumps, got paid
a % of the tonnage rate.

After that I got to drive some transfer dumps, and got on some hourly jobs,
better people to work with, no all day racing.

The "married" 4x4 set up that I drove was smoother to shift than the seperate
main and brownie  set ups of other trucks I drove.

Then came 13 speeds, and 15 speeds, single stick, with air range splits,
and who needs to have another 1,000 lbs of brownie anyway.

Back before my time, the standard 3 speed brownie was neded to "pick up"
the next gear,? hence the standard 4 x 3.

I have been told that when the diesel first came out, around 1932,
those old fuel pumps needed some fuel going through them all the time,

so out came the 7000 series main box with the lockout for reverse and 5th.
The 5th was a BIG jump from 4th.

So you would run downhill in 5th direct, engine rpms low, on the brakes,
and a light foot on the fuel too.? That kept the pump lubricated.

Years later, I was still using some of those old "7,000' series boxes in the "assembled"
trucks we used to haul gravel and dirt.

A 5 and 3, with the wrong rear end gears, would have a speed of 48 mph
in 4th over, at 2100 rpm,? and the next shift was 5th direct,? about 85mph
at 2100, when you could pick it up.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 06:30:32 AM by bkentr »

krooser

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Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 09:34:04 PM »

Sheesh...first day on the job and you were into the Schlitz already ?
 :-P :-P :-P :-P :-D
more than you could imagine...ALL the Milwaukee breweries provided free beer to the drivers who were waiting to load....many times I left Pabst, Miller and Schlitz loaded in more than one way...

Hank's Truck Forum

Re: 4X4 Transmissions
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 09:34:04 PM »

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